Shane Carwin Fan Community
Shane Carwin Fan Community
Brock Lesnar
So basically I am just wanting to hear from other people what they think about Brock? I am getting sick of hearing so many people give him praises when he hasn't done anything to convince me he deserves it.
Take a look at his fight record. His first win is over Min Soo Kim, who is only famous for losing to Brock. His second fight he lost to Mir, and in his third fight he beat Herring by laying on him for 15 mins. I don't buy that he was dominant in either of those fights either because most of his offense was not very effective. Mir didn't look to have any real damage done to him, and aside from the big punch Brock hit in round one with Herring it didn't look like he was very effective that fight either.
Now I'm not trying to say that Lesnar is a bad fighter, or that he has no potential, he has all the potential in the world with his size, strength and speed for a heavy weight, but he is in the same boat as Velasquez as they are too green. Both fighters are good at controlling on the ground but one of the announcers at UFC 99 (can't remember which one) put it into very good terms. Velasquez throws a lot of attacks from the ground but it doesn't do a lot of damage. Lesnar has the same problem. Where as someone like Carwin picks his shots, makes them count, and you can "feel them from the announce table." And on Brock's standup, he has and incredible 80" reach, but watch one of his fights and look at how he throws punches. He stands very close and doesn't take any advantage of his reach in any way.
Yes I do realize that Brock has beaten Couture, but some day somebody has got to admit that he is 45 years old and that may have been the biggest factor in why he lost. Yes, Brock is really big. Yes, Brock is fast for a heavy weight. Yes, Brock is a fantastic wrestler. But somebody take a look real close at his skills and tell me he is going to keep that belt and all the hype when you have people like Frank Mir with far superior striking and grappling skills, and people like Shane Carwin who match up in the wrestling and strength departments that Brock won't be able to hold down or control.
I would love to hear other people's opinions on the topic and if you agree/disagree with anything I've said.
Take a look at his fight record. His first win is over Min Soo Kim, who is only famous for losing to Brock. His second fight he lost to Mir, and in his third fight he beat Herring by laying on him for 15 mins. I don't buy that he was dominant in either of those fights either because most of his offense was not very effective. Mir didn't look to have any real damage done to him, and aside from the big punch Brock hit in round one with Herring it didn't look like he was very effective that fight either.
Now I'm not trying to say that Lesnar is a bad fighter, or that he has no potential, he has all the potential in the world with his size, strength and speed for a heavy weight, but he is in the same boat as Velasquez as they are too green. Both fighters are good at controlling on the ground but one of the announcers at UFC 99 (can't remember which one) put it into very good terms. Velasquez throws a lot of attacks from the ground but it doesn't do a lot of damage. Lesnar has the same problem. Where as someone like Carwin picks his shots, makes them count, and you can "feel them from the announce table." And on Brock's standup, he has and incredible 80" reach, but watch one of his fights and look at how he throws punches. He stands very close and doesn't take any advantage of his reach in any way.
Yes I do realize that Brock has beaten Couture, but some day somebody has got to admit that he is 45 years old and that may have been the biggest factor in why he lost. Yes, Brock is really big. Yes, Brock is fast for a heavy weight. Yes, Brock is a fantastic wrestler. But somebody take a look real close at his skills and tell me he is going to keep that belt and all the hype when you have people like Frank Mir with far superior striking and grappling skills, and people like Shane Carwin who match up in the wrestling and strength departments that Brock won't be able to hold down or control.
I would love to hear other people's opinions on the topic and if you agree/disagree with anything I've said.
Views: 16
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Miller on -
Hahahaha, that is good stuff man. I usually don't laugh outloud reading s*** on the internet but I cracked up at the signature of your last post. Well played ninjaska. You got me speechless, I think that's a point for you.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Miller on
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Josh Barnett failed a drug test for steroids and will not be facing Fedor at Affliction Trilogy. What a mess for Affliction. With no replacement in sight, the fight could possibly be scrapped completely,but even if the fight goes on will probably be a bust. Looks like this will be the final curtain call for Affliction and Fedor may be in the UFC sooner than we'd hoped. Unbelievable.
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Permalink Reply by Solomon Byron Rodriguez on -
I take exception with the statement that Lesnar is the only UFC fighter who thinks it's okay to act that way. Now I know these guys are no longer in the UFC but Tito flipped off the Shamrock camp, Cabbage told the fans who thought he couldn't beat some jiu jitsu guy "F#%k you". Cabbage also flipped off Tank Abbots camp. There have been many after the fight incidents at UFC and other MMA events. I am tired of all these MMA purists acting like their sport is a holier than thou gentlemens sport. What about the post fight brawl with Mark Coleman and Sho Gun. Post fight problmes with vanderlai and Quentin. BJ Penn is the most arrogant of all the fighters telling Shawn Sherk that "he's dead" and is very disrespectful. Frank Mir got what he deserved, how come no one is calling him out on that video mocking Brock. MMA purists are just upstet because a pro wrestler came in and has made it look relatively easy to dominate their sport. An over the hill boxer just knocked out a former UFC Champion and another pro wrestler - Bobby Lashley has a spotless MMA record after his opponents mocked his pro wrestling past. I think people are learning that MMA fighters may not be the toughest athletes out there. Brock is a refreshing change to the Vanilla, no personality having boring milk and cookie fighters that plague the UFC.
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Permalink Reply by nick kato on -
wow mike, you really have no clue about the fight game. you think that lesnar has great skills? if you call laying on a guy that you outweigh by like 20 lbs skills. lesnar is only getting anywhere because he is being matched up against people that are way smaller than he is. ya he beat couture so what the guy is 45, and he had a huge weight advantage. ya brock is strong and a good wrestler but his stand up is nothing special and he has no bjj skills. so what do u have? just a wrestler. and you know what shane was at the same national tourney that brock was. shane is a national champ wrestler as well. has every one forgotten that shanes first few fights he fought at 300 lbs and he was at like 7% body fat then. lesnar is in no way bigger then shane nor is he any stronger. i have trained with shane in the gym and on the mat, and he has made huge gains in all areas of the fight game. as far as shane's comments, well that is the way he feels. and i would have to agree with him. every one else in this game understands that the fans are what got them the fat payoff, and this isnt the wwe so he needs to get over his ego. brock has said that he has no respect for anyone well no one has any respect for him either.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Miller on
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There's no reasoning with people like you man. You think it's all about size advantage? If Lesnar is so terrible and all he has to rely on is his weight, he would've been beaten by now. You can't just lay on these guys, are you serious? You honestly believe that everybody he's fought is so bad that all someone has to do is lay on them to get the win? That's ridiculous. Any fat guy in the world could be a heavyweight champion. The fatter the better, right? Ok, I'm starting to see your side of the argument. The Heavyweight Champion of the UFC is just a fat guy with no skills other than his weight to crush his opponents. Brilliant. You should be an analyst, couldn't be much worse than Mike Goldberg or Joe Rogan. It's one thing to have an opinion, it's another to run out and tell anybody that will listen for a little publicity. Get your name out there with some good fights not with your hurt feelings.
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Permalink Reply by nick kato on
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ok so you are saying that size has nothing to do with it? i never said that all the rest were "so bad" but what skills did he show? that he has the size and the strenght to rush people and maybe take them down? ok so he has that, but what else? his punches land an awful lot when he is laying on people. do you really think he can just take shane down at will? ya gonzaga took shane down only after breaking his nose. but it didnt last he got right up and that was against a bjj black belt who everyone thought would beat shane. lesnar obviously cant submit people, and as proven he wont stand with people so what else does he have? not too much. your right i am on shanes sid. but shane has way more skills then lesnar. all of his fights have ended by either ko or SUBMISSION. he is a well rounded fighter
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Permalink Reply by Mike Miller on
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For the most part, yes that is what I'm saying. Size has very little to do with it. These guys are professional fighters, the best in the world at what they do. You don't think Mir could beat up any 265 pound guy off the street? To say that Lesnar is nothing but a heavy sack that lays on people is an exaggeration. You have to be more than that to beat the guys that he has beat. I think Carwin is a beast too, I don't think he could beat Lesnar but that's my opinion. I can understand you guys hating Lesnar on a personal level. He is crazy and he says and does things that are stupid sometimes, but to say the guy isn't deserving of the belt or that he can't fight is ridiculous. He is the HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION of the UFC, the most recognized company in MMA because of the talent that fights under their banner. I guess will see how you will dismiss the next guy the fights for the belt. Will he be too skinny, to old, or just not good enough?
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Permalink Reply by nick kato on
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yes he fights for the ufc, but seriously there should be another weight division i think. there are guys like vera who fought at the bottom of the hw and then there is lesnar. ya the ufc is the most recognized but there is other talent out there. unfortunatly in my opinion the hw division is the most in question. i dont hate lesnar i am just not a fan of his actions, and i think he is still stuck in his wwe days. but everybody does the same with shane, discounting all the wins he has but he is still undefeated. and maybe it is good that he is always the underdog because that makes him want it more. even against velazquez people count him out. people said he couldnt beat gonzaga but he did. 11-0 is no joke and never going past 2:41 of the first round, that's no joke either. just like you say lesnar is for real i say carwin is for real. and i am dying to see that match.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Miller on
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If they ever get together, it would be an interesting fight for sure. Carwin must be getting noticed by some people, bodog has him favored over Cain Valazquez. Cain V. is no joke so it'll be interesting to see how that fight goes. He wins that one and Lesnar beats Couture again.(Couture is my pick over Menataro at UFC102) Carwin maybe in line for the next title shot, in my opinion. A lot has to fall in place for that to happen though.
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Permalink Reply by Eden Vella on -
I think brock who walks around between 280 and 300 most of the time should be in a super HW division.
As a martial artist I like the "boring" fighters who display some level of discipline and respect for other fighters. I wouldn't consider myself to be an MMA purist. I follow the sport because it's an opportunity for martial artists to fight professionally after years of training.
Tim Sylvia hasn't looked good for a long time. Being beaten by Ray Mercer wasn't a notch on anyone's belt. Look at how Fedor smashed him for example. That was the last time I thought we'd see Sylvia professionally.
If the UFC was to make a 300 pound division Brock would be able to go back to the weight he was at in pro-wrestling prior to having to cut weight.
It will happen eventually or UFC will face more and more complaints about the fights in the HW division.
Currently my favourite division is the 205 because they're more competitive fights. Even with Lyoto Machida's unique fighting style there are still guys in that division who could take it to him and still be entertaining to watch. He's a complete fighter who I was very impressed by with his KO of Rashad Evans. At the end he was so happy and humble in his victory. That's is the kind of champion Mixed Martial Arts needs. It's not Mixed Pro Wrestling so Tito and the others theatrics are just thuggish too and belong else where too. Brock is being judged more because of his background.
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Permalink Reply by Eden Vella on
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I'm looking forward to seeing Shane face off against Brock.
It will happen eventually and hopefully it will come to pass once he pounds through Cain.
I believe that a fighter with a solid wrestling base (more specifically great take down defence) will have the best opportunity to keep the fight on the feet and with a nice mix of punches and leg and mid section kicks work away to slowly work away at Brock's speed and then by keeping it on the feet and just continue to test Brock's chin with punches.
High kicks would allow for too many take down opportunities for Brock so I can't see many people going for high kicks unless it's Cro-Cop who by that stage would've wailed on him with dozens of leg and mid section kicks.
I guess we'll see over time who can pound him out.and leave him dazed on the floor.
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Permalink Reply by rotovibe on -
Real quick.
Like I've mentioned before, I think Lesnar has a ways to go and his stand-up is suspect. Not really a surprise, he's got time.
BUT...
What he did with Mir shows a little bit of his maturing process.
His weight and mass(and reach) had a LOT to do with what he was able to accomplish.
Mainly being able to stuff Mir's attempts to use his half-guard to roll Lesnar from the bottom. Lesnar used his massive torso to stabilize Mir's hips. (he even used his head sometimes)
Then he was controlling his wrists with his massive banana hands and almost secured a bowtie on mir in the first round.
What was a little freakish was the fact that he was able to secure a...hell I don't even know what to call it...reverse nelson? and securing it with his huge-ass reach on Mir's bicep. Now he had hip and head control, with a helpless Mir. He looked like he was in a wooden stock.
That takes a lot of mass and a long reach with a little grappling smarts to render a BJJ blackbelt helpless.
It's a little ironic that UFC 100 comemorated the legendary Royce Gracie and his families contribution to the sport while a greco-wrestler came in and grappled a prominent JJ expert into complete helplessness.
I hated the reality of it. But it happened. Much like bruce Lee suggested, you have to adapt. And this sport is changing guards at every decade it seems.
I think Carwin can give him a good contest. I don't think Carwin's going to stay on his back looking for locks. Carwin's gonna bang. That's gonna be fun to watch if it happens.
Call me crazy but I think the Fedor fight may happen sooner than we think. I'm suspecting we're not getting the whole truth behind the wheels shooting off of the affliction card.
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