Shane Carwin Fan Community
Shane Carwin Fan Community
Brock Lesnar
So basically I am just wanting to hear from other people what they think about Brock? I am getting sick of hearing so many people give him praises when he hasn't done anything to convince me he deserves it.
Take a look at his fight record. His first win is over Min Soo Kim, who is only famous for losing to Brock. His second fight he lost to Mir, and in his third fight he beat Herring by laying on him for 15 mins. I don't buy that he was dominant in either of those fights either because most of his offense was not very effective. Mir didn't look to have any real damage done to him, and aside from the big punch Brock hit in round one with Herring it didn't look like he was very effective that fight either.
Now I'm not trying to say that Lesnar is a bad fighter, or that he has no potential, he has all the potential in the world with his size, strength and speed for a heavy weight, but he is in the same boat as Velasquez as they are too green. Both fighters are good at controlling on the ground but one of the announcers at UFC 99 (can't remember which one) put it into very good terms. Velasquez throws a lot of attacks from the ground but it doesn't do a lot of damage. Lesnar has the same problem. Where as someone like Carwin picks his shots, makes them count, and you can "feel them from the announce table." And on Brock's standup, he has and incredible 80" reach, but watch one of his fights and look at how he throws punches. He stands very close and doesn't take any advantage of his reach in any way.
Yes I do realize that Brock has beaten Couture, but some day somebody has got to admit that he is 45 years old and that may have been the biggest factor in why he lost. Yes, Brock is really big. Yes, Brock is fast for a heavy weight. Yes, Brock is a fantastic wrestler. But somebody take a look real close at his skills and tell me he is going to keep that belt and all the hype when you have people like Frank Mir with far superior striking and grappling skills, and people like Shane Carwin who match up in the wrestling and strength departments that Brock won't be able to hold down or control.
I would love to hear other people's opinions on the topic and if you agree/disagree with anything I've said.
Take a look at his fight record. His first win is over Min Soo Kim, who is only famous for losing to Brock. His second fight he lost to Mir, and in his third fight he beat Herring by laying on him for 15 mins. I don't buy that he was dominant in either of those fights either because most of his offense was not very effective. Mir didn't look to have any real damage done to him, and aside from the big punch Brock hit in round one with Herring it didn't look like he was very effective that fight either.
Now I'm not trying to say that Lesnar is a bad fighter, or that he has no potential, he has all the potential in the world with his size, strength and speed for a heavy weight, but he is in the same boat as Velasquez as they are too green. Both fighters are good at controlling on the ground but one of the announcers at UFC 99 (can't remember which one) put it into very good terms. Velasquez throws a lot of attacks from the ground but it doesn't do a lot of damage. Lesnar has the same problem. Where as someone like Carwin picks his shots, makes them count, and you can "feel them from the announce table." And on Brock's standup, he has and incredible 80" reach, but watch one of his fights and look at how he throws punches. He stands very close and doesn't take any advantage of his reach in any way.
Yes I do realize that Brock has beaten Couture, but some day somebody has got to admit that he is 45 years old and that may have been the biggest factor in why he lost. Yes, Brock is really big. Yes, Brock is fast for a heavy weight. Yes, Brock is a fantastic wrestler. But somebody take a look real close at his skills and tell me he is going to keep that belt and all the hype when you have people like Frank Mir with far superior striking and grappling skills, and people like Shane Carwin who match up in the wrestling and strength departments that Brock won't be able to hold down or control.
I would love to hear other people's opinions on the topic and if you agree/disagree with anything I've said.
Views: 16
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Chris Benson on -
I don't think Brock is a "fighter" at all... at least not of the MMA sort. He's nothing more than a freakishly large & strong wrestler that has been given an extraordinary opportunity, and so far he's managed to win. I don't doubt that BL is a cool guy to hang with on any day but fight night if you're his opponent. But as a serious fan & competitor myself... I don't respect his approach to the sport or his competition. I'm a pretty big guy myself @ 6'-3" & 245lbs at 8%. I'm incredibly gifted athletically as well. I've bested many people at mtn. bike racing, boxing, wrestling, motocross, bodybuilding, powerlifting, BJJ, etc... and it's all come relatively easy. I LOVE to be tested physically, always have, which is probably why it comes so easy to me. But even though I feel super confident in every arena I've competed, and against any competitor I've faced... I've NEVER behaved the way he does. I just don't think there's a good excuse for his behavior at all. He's only winning because of his freakish strength & wrestling prowess. If you match BL up with someone as fast and freaky as he is... that possesses an equal ground (Carwin) game, yet also has a good arsenal on their feet... BL loses every time. Hell... I don't think he has a snowballs chance in hell against a man like Fedor for instance. Even if FE is giving up 30+ pounds to BL, he's gonna tear him a new azz.
True... BL beat Couture. But I'm pretty sure that was a case of "strikers chance", couture was handling BL just fine at a significant size/age/strength difference. I think Couture was well on his way to winning that fight, but he got hit with a sloppy punch... not even a direct hit. But since there was friggin Mack truck behind that fist... it kinda put an end to the night for RC. Brock is just a giant... he's gonna walk on a few people for sure. I don't think his reign at the top will last long. I wanna see him tested by the likes of Kongo, Cain, or Fedor. But I REALLY want to see his chin and ground game tested by another absolute BEAST.... Shane Carwin!! I'm really ranting now. LOL Better go for a run or something. Awesome card last night though. Huge ups to GSP and Hendo.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Dolan on -
I agree that BL is a good wrestler and has good size advantage on all the heavy weights he's faced so far. I think the trick to cracking BL is to take him past the second round. Shane has the size and the experience to go against BL and for the life of me I don't understand why BL has any fans.
My nightmares came true at the end of UFC 100 when Brock went WWE tarded on the crowd and Frank Mir. I knew he would pull those kind of stunts. He doesn't understand MMA fans and doesn't deserve any respect.
Shane on the other hand seems to be the complete package with regards to his appreciation of the sport and it's loyal fans.
I hope when Shane get in the ring with BL, he gives him the "Bisping" treatment.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Miller on -
So much for the "far superior striking and grappling skills of Frank Mir" I think Frank's plastic surgeon would also disagree while he's fixing his face. I was skeptical at first but it looks to me like Big Brock is the real deal. Mir is awesome and look what happened to him at UFC 100, that was brutal. I like Carwin and i think he is a beast but no doubt in my mind he will be a huge underdog if he ever makes it to a titlefight against lesnar, which is a long way away. Let's say he gets by Cain V. and gets a title shot against Lesnar, my money is on carwin bloodied and disoriented trying to figure out why 3 Lesnars are still in his face screaming "talk sh*t now." It's not Carwin's place to tell Brock how to act in the octogan, who cares how he acts, he's the champ. You want to shut him up, go in there and tame the beast. We'll see what happens but I lost a little respect for carwin and his mom like rant about Lesnar's "antics" after the fight. He's going to wish it was a predetermined outcome after that beating. Cover your face man, he's not a fan of body work.
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Permalink Reply by rotovibe on -
That fight was going one way and one way only. Brock is too powerful for someone to try and submit him. You will wind up bloodied trying to position for any kind of submission.
Couture gave him a run for his money in their fight. And I agree with the other posts, when you get hit with sledge hammers, you will feel them. Actually, it was Lesnar's lucky knee that lit Couture up.
I never believed Mir had a good standup nor a chin - it was a beating waiting to happen. He got rocked by Ian Freeman. In fact that fight looked very similar to the UFC 100 bout.
Here's how you beat Lesnar:
Stuff his take-down (which looked average at best)
Outbox him - his striking sucks.
I think Carwin's standup is better at this point in their careers. He would match up well. If he can keep it standing and counter well, Lesnar will go down. I don't think his chin is that good. You just have to weather the flying sledgehammers in the meat storm.
I think Carwin is right on about winning honorably. Lesnar is a school bully who found a living in a hobby of beating people up. One day there will be a man that will let him know that he is not in the school yard anymore.
Looking forward to the Velasquez/ Carwin fight.
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Permalink Reply by Brian Powers on -
I said it once before, and I'll say it one more time, Lesnar wins because he's big. He's as strong as and orge and has all the brains to go along with it. In his fight @ UFC 100 he didn't look like he had progressed all that far in his skills other than he didn't rush in too fast this time. Let's see him fight somebody closer to his size and see where things go from there. Pound for pound I would put him just above Bob Sapp and Kimbo Slice. Brock is a joke and I can't wait for a REAL heavyweight to knock him down to size.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Miller on
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I understand that you are on a Lesnar hating bandwagon, but even you can't believe that the UFC Heavyweight Champion is on the level of Bob Sapp and Kimbo Slice. Do you even watch MMA? Lesnar didn't just beat, he destroyed a Frank Mir that was in the best shape of his career and at the top of his game. A true world class, top of the heavyweight division in all of MMA(not just the UFC) fighter. Lesnar made good decisions on his feet and got Mir on his back not once but twice. Sometime you just have to recognize (no matter how much it may hurt your pride) that this guy is the real deal. How many world class fighters does the guy have to beat into a pulp before you'll admit it? Kimbo Slice and Bob Sapp, are you sick? More like He's in a class all by himself. Nobody in the UFC heavyweight division deserves a titleshot let alone is going to take that belt from him, that's why Dana White is scrambling to open up the vault and get Fedor in the UFC. I mean seriously, Couture: smashed him; Big Nog: got smashed by the guy who got smashed by Lesnar. Carwin (if he gets past Cain V.) deserves the title shot in my eyes, but even he's a huge underdog. BOB SAPP and KIMBO SLICE?? dude, c'mon. Be realistic please. Those two are a joke and you are comparing them to the greatest fighting organizations heavyweight CHAMPION? think about that, the UFC heavyweight CHAMPION. Let it marinate, it's quite an accomplishment.
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Permalink Reply by Brian Powers on
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I'm not saying Kimbo and Sapp are better than Lesnar, I'm just saying he's slightly better than them. Pound for pound he could only beat HALF of the heavyweight division. Yes, I do realize he beat all of those people you mentioned, but once again it's because of his size! If you look at his skill set what has he got? Frank Mir is good but beating him doesn't open my eyes to Lesnar in any way. I was a big fan of his until his fight with Heath when I realized he's just a big wrestler. Besides Carwin, most of the good heavyweights aren't in the UFC. WAMMA's top 2 ranked heavyweights wouldn't have any trouble dismantling that big oaf you worship so highly.
Carwin has 2 first round knock outs lined up, and if you don't believe me I guess everyone here will just have to wait until Lesnar is laying unconscious on his back and I can say I told you so.
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Permalink Reply by rotovibe on
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Mir was a horrible match-up for Brock. I dare say Mir was lucky that he took on an inexperienced Lesnar in part 1.
I don't care if you are billy badass in JJ...you get someone as strong, quick and as massive as Lesnar on top of you, you will lose. It doesn't take much for Lesnar to improve his game to win...He is just a physical freak of nature. A good course on submission defense is all he needed in order to by himself time to just outmuscle Mir into his ground and pound.
Everything else in Lesnar's game is suspect.
Lesnar has been matched up against submission guys who are far less physically dominating, and a wrestling champion who he outweighed by 40+ lbs. (who almost pulled a win).
Dana and Co. know how to set up a popular fighter. You subtly set him up for severe mismatches. Then let him win by sheer force.
I have yet to see Lesnar fight anyone who matches him physically. If you get a guy who has the same dimensions, can slip punches, and can stuff a mediocre take-down - then you have something to measure Lesnar by. Right now I just think he is a green buffoon. Even slightly funny in an "idiot" kind of way.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Miller on
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Man I bet Chris Benson had no idea what he was going to get started when he wrote that post. I know that this is Carwin's site and its going to be full of his fans, the only reason i decided to post here was because of his lame attempt at publicity, calling out Brock about his post fight meltdown. All i'm saying is you gotta go by who he has beat, everything else is speculation. He's already beaten cotoure,who is an oldie but still a goodie, and Mir who is probably the best heavyweight left in the UFC. I mean none of these guys are unbeatable but i think Lesnar is the least beatable of them all. I'm going to go out on a thin limb and say If a Fedor Vs. lesnar fight ever happens, I'm puttin my money on Lesnar (you know he'll be the underdog) to win. i know that's going to ruffle your feathers, just what I think. It sure will be fun to watch either way. you guys going to watch that Affliction 3 card coming up? Seems to be pretty good even though Barnett is kinda crappy and has no shot, i like the undercard.
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Permalink Reply by Brian Powers on
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I used to think Barnett had the best chance of beating Fedor, but after his last few fights I don't think he has much of a chance anymore. Also really looking forward to seeing how Vitor does in his last fight before he jumps to the UFC.
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Permalink Reply by Adam Smith on
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Lesnar is just not that impressive so far. He continues to refine his "technique" using his mass and strength advantage over other fighters (or Murr at least :) ), but his stand up is still about the weakest I have ever seen for a champion in mma, never mind other combat sports.
His victories over the competition he has had to date are not impressive to me personally because I have not been that impressed by his competition. Just that simple.
As far as him wanting Fedor, he should hope it does not happen. It would change his life and make him even more of an ass after getting run through the wood chipper. Fedor is salivating after watching his fights behind that quiet smile.
Lesnar needs to focus on his competion in the UFC. A fight with Emelianenko does not seem likely (in spite of what Dana White says publicly) for many reasons. Carwin will defeat Velasquez I believe, and hopefully continue to improve his standup. Superior standup in the UFC hw division is going to mean a huge advantage in the mixed bag they have now. This definately includes the mostly untested Lesnar. Given his huge advantages, Lesnar is just not that impressive.
I think Lesnar will fold under pressure when he faces it in earnest from someone not intimidated by his physical presence.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Miller on
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I don't think his standup is great, but it's not "the worst". He just spends so much time on the ground that you don't see much of it. He sent Heath Herring into a backflip with a straight right and he buckled Cotoure's knees with a right hook before the glancing blow that sent him to the mat. (You can keep making excuses why he beat who he beat but the fact remains, Couture was a belt holder well into his 40's and Mir is world class all-around Mixed Martial Artist.) Seriously, I don't think it matters how good of standup he has because nobody is stopping that train from taking them to down. When he gets his momentum up and spears you no amount of sprawl is going to keep you from going to the ground. You know he's almost 300lbs at fight time and he's not pudgy, thats all solid weight. Fedor is the only person I think who can beat him but even that's not a guarantee. Fedor hasn't fought someone as athletic as Lesnar. He's fought some big guys, but no one as fast and powerful. The dude has some serious improvements to make but to be so new to the sport he has made serious strides. If a Fedor Vs. Lesnar fight ever does happen it'll be atleast 8 months to a year away. Atleast 2 maybe 3 fights before he steps in with Fedor, by then the way he's progressing the chances are going to be much slimmer that fedor takes the belt. Believe I'm going to cough up the 50 bucks for that fight though.
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